Thanks. I'm glad you enjoyed it.


Indeed. I learned this from the Commentary track.


Well, he was consistent, I suppose-- but mostly he seemed... absent. A cipher or plot device who we barely met. And even if he was dim-witted enough to want to kill the guy who tried to save his planet, why did the rest of his crew go along so willingly?


Well, Reunification was his pet project, and the last time we saw him he was hiding with the Underground, persona non grata with the Empire. It seems unlikely that the Romulans would send a very old man (over 150, and not aging as well as a full-blooded Vulcan) who they consider an undesirable alien and infiltrator to singlehandedly attempt such a mission.


I suppose it would be nice to end a trilogy with such a plot device, negating this alternate timeline digression and returning everything to its proper structure; it would make the whole thing more palatable, although there is so much stupidity and so many anachronisms in this story that will never be good.


Okay, I think you're right; this is probably not a legitimate point. Several times in TOS there were portrayals of Miners, and in the 24th Century the Romulans did use Reman slaves in their mines. So a Miner is consistent with Trek continuity.


Hmm, okay. I guess I wasn't clear on that point.


Exactly. This is an indication of how the audience has changed. The complaints about Starfleet officers being too civilized, the Enterprise looking like a hotel, the desire to see the Federation destroyed, et cetera. This article about a book series where the Borg annihilate most of Starfleet and destroy several Federation worlds, resulting in trillions of deaths has a quote that says it all: "Writers were enthusiastic to tell of the destruction and scope of this novel series to an equally eager audience." I find it all very disturbing.


Certainly, that much makes sense; but the idea of turning Kirk-- who described himself as a grimly studious student when he was young-- into a barfighting doofus is included for the same reason the Beastie Boys were: To impress the lowest denominator.


Exactly. Spock could be unstable or emotional, as seen in "The Cage," but the bizarre ejection and stranding, and the later attempt at murdering him with his bare hands is mind-bogglingly ridiculous-- as is the lack of response from the Bridge crew or security in both cases. This is one the main reasons that this movie could never be considered good, even if they do correct the timeline; the writing is MSt3K material.


Yeah, that was completely unnecessary and inconsistent with the notion of his character as "an old country doctor." But, again, they no doubt thought the real background for the nickname would be considered 'cheesy' to the targeted teen demographic.

I did feel like it was rather odd, as I watched the movie the second time, that the Main Antagonist gets so little screen time. But then, the movie isn't entirely about him--Kirk manages to rustle up a bunch of other antagonists --and it's largely from the Starfleet officers' POV. And Nero is a simple (but not entirely generic) character, I suppose, as far as the plot is concerned--he has one main plan in mind, and he spends the whole movie trying to carry it out. There's not really a wide range of relevant things for him to say.


I really don't know. You'd think someone would raise a quibble at some point. It would certainly be possible to show some dissension among Nero's crew . . . but TPTB decided not to go that way, and I don't really mind that decision.


I dunno, I just assumed he'd returned to the Federation at some point for whatever reason. Possibly because he learned of the danger the star posed and thought Federation technology would be more useful than Romulan.



Now, mind you, it is possible for an officer to be written as being so polite that he or she is just plain bland. But yes, it's a comment on the culture. Maybe it will turn out to be just a swing in tastes: once people have gotten their fill of dark-and-gritty, some other trend will start to develop and the writers/producers/etc. will find another toy to play with.


Oh, no question about it.

^^ Nice to see you. You and [b]KJ[b] should come around more often.


I suppose it is easy enough to come up with a scenario. In fact, now that I think of it, I believe there was a series of Comics that laid all this out in detail; but I haven't read them.


This is what I'm hoping for. Usually it goes in a forty-year cycle-- note the cultural tone of the 20s and the 60s-- but something threw it off this time. I don't know if it was Millennium Fever or the terrorist attacks in 2001 or what, but I'm hoping it was just a delay and we'll see things turn around this decade.

Spank me, for I am a bad geek, because...

My story begins yesterday (Sunday), when a friend loaned me the "new" Star Trek, which I hadn't yet watched, nor did I plan to go ahead and watch it last night, but it turned out that I had watched most of my shows live this past week so there wasn't much on the DVR, so I said "hell with it" and popped in Star Trek...

Now most folks (I think) know I'm not generally a fan of prequels so I wasn't expecting to really like this movie - the only question was whether I'd hate it or just not like it, but it turns out I actually liked it. And lots of things I'd heard about this movie - well, makes me wonder if I got some previously unknown copy of the movie or something, because I don't think McCoy actually drank a drop, and I'd heard this movie made him into a borderline alcoholic. Hell, I'm not sure Scotty even drink anything.

Was it perfect? Probably not, but it certainly wasn't as bad as I was expecting based on the reactions of others - I actually think I love it. There were two characters that this movie didn't get quite right, though I can't exactly put my finger on what exactly was wrong with them. But neither Uhura or Chekov seemed quite like the original Uhura and Chekov, but neither were far enough off to drive me crazy either.
And, okay, there were times where it felt like the actor playing young!McCoy was trying to be DeForest Kelley rather than a young Bones McCoy, but I admit that didn't bother all that much, once or twice, but mostly it wasn't an issue.

One reason it probably didn't drive me crazy was because I thought young Spock (not baby!Spock) was as close to perfect as any actor could've made him. Young!Scotty was also as close to perfect as he could be, and I didn't think young!Kirk was that far off, and most of the "glitches" from this Kirk to the first Kirk could be explained by his fathers untimely death in the new timeline, I think. Though I do think they shouldn't have tried to explain HOW Kirk beat Starfleets unbeatable test. It's like Anya's (from Buffy) fear of rabbits, it was much better until the show tried to explain it.
Actually, I think Trek handled the test thing slightly better than Whedon with the rabbit thing, but only slightly better.

So, spank me, Trek hard-core, for I am naughty - I like NuTrek.

The like for nu Trek is inexplicable to me. I mean, it might be a fun MST3K movie if they had just based it on a video game or something, but as Star Trek it's an unmitigated disaster.

But, anyway....

I don't know where anybody got the alcoholic McCoy thing. He was about the only thing that survived rebooting intact.

I've responded to her LJ..

Okay, I rewatched the movie last night, and I was mistaken, McCoy takes one drink, right after meeting Kirk and after telling him his life story... But one drink does not an alcoholic make.

I also can't believe I forgot to mention the dude playing Sulu, because outside of Spock and Scotty I believe he was also the BOMB! Seriously, he didn't have much screen time, but what he did have I never once thought "that isn't Sulu" which means he did good - I also think he worked some subtle body language from the first Sulu, perhaps even moreso than any of the other actors.

Also, I know some thought young!Spock was to emotional (along with younger!Sarek), but Spock is half human, and I have no trouble believing that a young Spock was more emotional than first Spock, and that's why I like Nu!Spock, the actor managed to walk the fine line of being emotional without being overly emotional. Okay, yes, after his mother was killed and his planet destroyed he got a little emotional, but that also worked, because I totally believe even first Spock would have more than a little emotion in that situation, and that is also why I don't have a problem with Sarek admitting to loving Amanda and Spock, because he didn't do all that until after she was killed and the planet destroyed, so for me that worked.

Okay, so I do have one problem with the whole young!Spock thing, and that is when the other Vulcan children are picking on him. Sure, human children I could totally see doing that, but it did feel wrong for Vulcan children to... Okay, not wrong exactly, but the baby!Vulcans picking on baby!Spock came across as just as emotional as baby!Spock, which is probably why that scene just didn't work for me.

And now my liking of AUs has totally kicked in, because I find myself wondering how much this would change events from the original TNG, DS9, and VOY. Weirdly enough I think in a way VOY would probably be more obviously affected. I mean did Tuvok (or his parents) survive? If not, then no Tuvok for Janeway. And, of course, there was another Vulcan on VOY (Vorik), though I think he sorta disappeared after season three, but still I find myself thinking about how some things would end up totally different and how other things would probably remain much the same.

Btw, do admit that the JJ Prise is ugly..

Since I'm not sure what the JJ Prise is I cannot say whether or not it is ugly. Sorry, need more info first.

Jj-prise =Design of the Enterprise used for nuTrek, the ship.

*shrugs* I'm kinda like Theo, the ship (car, boat, etcs.) is just a way to get from point A to point B most of the time. However, with that said, I honestly didn't pay much attention to the way the Enterprise looked in the movie (I'll try to pay a bit more attention when I watch again, probably tonight!), but what I can say is that I always thought the originial Enterprise (the one in TOS) was kind of ugly. Though I liked the sounds it made for red alerts and when weapons were fired best of all, so hopefully that's something...

*sigh* - *waits for the rotten tomatoes*

TNG had a better looking Enterprise, but eventually they started dicking around with the design and instead of getting better it got worse. As far as ship design and Star Trek, the one I liked best of all was Voyager. Aside from the smaller Federation ships (not counting shuttlecraft and also not counting alien ships), Voyager is the only one that looked space worthy but almost practical in design as well. The rest of the big Federation ships were almost all too damn clunky for me to truly take seriously as space crafts.

So, my theory is that because I didn't pay much attention to the Nu!Trek Enterprise means that I didn't think the design was ugly, cause if it had been I woulda noticed. Sorry.

Given the butterfly effect, I think it's safe to say that everyone and everything from TNG, DS9 and VOY are all obliterated. The only Trek series that remains intact is Enterprise.

*overly dramatic flounce*

NOOOOOOOOOOO!

There were only four Treks, and this ENT of which you speak was NOT one of them.

Okay, seriously, even with the Butterfly Effect, I don't think everything from the latter Treks would be obliterated. Yes, the planet Vulcan was destroyed and it's people almost wiped out, but while Vulcan is a foundation Federation planet, it isn't the only one, which means to me that only things relative to Vulcan's or Vulcan would be wiped out or at the very least heavily altered, but because a few Vulcans survived doesn't mean that everything Vulcan would be changed either, just heavily altered because they would certainly no longer be able to have such a large presence in Starfleet.

We're talking about six billion people and all their interactions with others over the course of a century. All the friendships, professional relationships, economic relationships, all the people on scientific expeditions, serving on Starfleet ships, et cetera. Just one person being removed from a timeline can have enormous consequences (remember Edith Keeler?). And this is a timeline that was already much altered twenty-five years earlier. Then there's all those other people who were killed on the Starships that were destroyed at Vulcan. And all the people who were killed on Earth. In fact, given what happened to the Kelvin, things even in the time frame of the movie should have been even more different.

And I loved Enterprise.

I get that NOT everything would be the same, I just don't think TNG, DS9, and VOY would necessarily be obliterated in this new timeline.

Okay, fine, VOY maybe. It would certainly, I think, suffer the most from the changes, because if I recall correctly, (super secret spy) Tuvok (Mister Vulcan) was the main reason Janeway was sent to the badlands in the first place, so if something happened to Tuvok (or even just one of his parents - I suck at the maths, so I don't know if Tuvok would've all ready been born or not at this point) then there would be no crewmember for Janeway to hunt down.

Honestly, I think TNG, but especially DS9 would probably remain mostly in-tact, because DS9 dealt more Cardassians and beings from another galaxy moreso than dealing with Vulcans or the Federation itself. Yes, TNG would probably be at least as obviously affected as the original TOS would be, but I don't think it would be unrecognizable like I do think maybe (probably) VOY would be. Well, the maquis characters from VOY would probably still be mostly as they were, but it might not be Janeway and VOY who come after them.

As for my feelings on ENT, I'll keep them short to keep from turning this into an ENT thread.

For me, ENT took practically all the things that drug VOY down - i.e. the stuff that kept it from being a great series, and simply repackaged them in ENT. Of course, even then I might have watched if it simply annoyed me, but it was also very boring, and that was why I couldn't stay with it. Seriously, I tried to watch a few times, and only made it through one full episode, and I only barely managed that.

^^ Ah, well, to each his own.

But I still think the future will be unrecognizable in the Lame-O-Verse. Think of how different the last 150 years of American History would be if the Civil War never happened-- none of the people alive today would be the same as here and now-- and that was an insignificant event compared to what happened in nuTrek.